- Paul doesn't seem to know very much about Jesus; and
- What Paul does know he claims to know by divine revelation.
Tuesday, March 2, 2010
Why I Am Agnostic About the Historical Jesus (1)
It seems to me that any historical inquiry should start with the earliest source. For Jesus, the earliest source is the letters of the apostle Paul, written some twenty or more years after the time that Jesus is thought to have lived and died. These letters strike me as problematic for a couple of reason:
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Then the letters of Paul are, ipso facto, not the earliest sources for the historical Jesus. I am unconvinced by the mythicists I've read that rail against the paucity of historical content about Jesus in the epistles. Paul has never met the historical Jesus. Paul was always more interested with the risen Christ than for anything prior to the cross. Paul was teaching a faith at odds with the Jerusalem church (which is his primary rival to the burgeoning Jesus movements). The Jerusalem church was composed of members who had encountered the historical Jesus. For Paul, it was enough that there was a risen Christ and developed his theology around it.
ReplyDeleteSo no, it's a mythicist ruse to use Paul to buttress what is, at best, an argument from ignorance. I remain a Jesus minimalist (see here).
Well, sure. Let's say that Paul was completely insane and everything he said about Jesus was just his personal delusion, hung upon a skeleton of whatever he'd picked up from other Christians. Say that makes Mark the earliest source about Jesus. You've still got decades of Paul's (by hypothesis) delusional propaganda muddying the account.
ReplyDeleteSo, for instance, if you find a passage that might indicate that Mark thought Jesus was divine (I'm actually pretty ignorant here, so correct me if that's implausible.) you have to consider whether that reflects the belief of the followers of Jesus or the beliefs of those who heard Paul's ideas in addition to the teachings of Jesus.
The question of whether there was an individual person to whom most of the features in the gospels can be ascribed is very much similar, except probably even harder to document.
"You've still got decades of Paul's (by hypothesis) delusional propaganda muddying the account."
ReplyDeletePaul was muddying the diaspora Jewish community, which the Jerusalem church did not try to proselytize (at first). It's no biggie for them what some self-appointed apostle is saying. They're the super-apostles after all (Paul's term). By the time they tried to counter the Pauline gospel, the well has been thoroughly poisoned.
I agree that the gospels are problematic for finding anything historical about Jesus. In this I agree with RM Price that Jesus is at the "vanishing point". But I am cautious to go from there to the leap to Jesus mythicism. Maybe I'm an agnostic like Vinny. It's that the "argument from earliest sources" just does not convince me for the reason I've stated above.
Qohelet,
ReplyDeleteI agree that for Paul, his experience with the risen Christ was enough to support his theology. I am not sure that for Paul, "[t]he Jerusalem church was composed of members who had encountered the historical Jesus." I don't think it is necessary to read Paul that way.
I also liked the way Eric Reitan laid out the potential overlap between historical Jesuses and mythological Jesuses, which you commented on on your blog. I wish that McGrath had addressed that more.
Dan,
I think mainstream consensus would be that Mark's Jesus was less divine than Paul's, which might suggest (consistent I think with your point) that Mark was not simply elaborating on Paul understanding, but had some independent source. I think this might make a historical Jesus somewhat more likely, although perhaps (also consistent I think with your point) no more retrievable.
'Paul was always more interested with the risen Christ than for anything prior to the cross.'
ReplyDeletePaul is clear what he is interested in - the Scriptures.
Romans 15
For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me." 4For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
Paul is so vocal about where his Christianity comes from that he has to be declared 'silent' , so people can stop hearing him.